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| Blogs > Andrew > Comments from the CEO/Founder |
Ideas to combat profile fraud...
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Ideas to combat profile fraud... As you may have noticed, personal sites are increasingly becoming victim to profile fraud - frauders creating profiles simply to collect contact information for spam/etc. I have now seen it on every personals site that I have an account (including competitors). While we have been aggressive at deleting accounts who violate our terms of use, we often have to wait until abuse happens before we can act. Without disclosing all the anti-fraud tools we have in place (some are better left secret so frauders can't develop work-around), here are a few of the things we have in place, in development, and in planning to help combat these frauders. In general, there are four types of things we can do: block automated scripts that abuse the site, block bad things that human frauders manually can do, and find ways to better identify frauders, and limit the type of information passed around. Block automated scripts - so far, the most effective way to block scripts is to require a visual "challenge" to do certain things. You probably have seen the 3 digit numbers we require members to type. While this breaks automated scripts, frauders are increasingly writing software to recognize the numbers and bypass the challenge. We are testing a new challenge graphic in this release (added to photo upload page) that is tougher than before to automate. The drawback to these tests is that it will increasingly feel more like an IQ test each time you want to do something. Look for changes in theses test soon. One drawback is that blind members may be limited (we have audio versions but those are also able to be automated). I think that we can make this a painless process if we require a visual challenge every 10 or times that we currently do it (but make the challenge harder). Block human frauders - In many developing countries, people make less than $3/day. At that rate, it is economically feasible to have people sit around and do things on a site (e.g., bypass the challenges). Blocking countries/IP address have limited effect as there are ways for people to bypass these bans. Unfortunately, the only way to directly combat this is to charge for participation (even as low as a one time $1 fee to be a "standard" member). We are currently considering requiring this low cost fee to be able to see emails and respond to them. Ways to better identify frauders - we currently have a bunch of secret ways to flag a member for abuse/etc. The most visible is the links that we ask our members to use when they see something bad. We will be making it easier to flag emails and members (and perhaps even giving points for members for this). We have found that it is VERY difficult to visually determine if a fraud account is fraud simply by the profile. Limit the type of information passed - remember, the only motivation for frauders is to collect personal email addresses so that they can do bad things with it. I am becoming convinced that the only way to de-motivate frauders is to make it very hard to get emails. Currently, they are getting emails two ways. First, many men are sending external email address to every female account that they email. The frauders then simply add the email to their list. Second, when frauders reply (or send an email), they will almost always give a "direct" email account which when emailed will put the sending on the list. Obviously, these are both terrible things - fraud accounts make it harder for the millions of legitimate members to have a good experience. I am seriously considering banning ALL contact information exchange on this site (e.g., sending an email address, instant messenger account, etc automatically removes the account from the live site until the owner calls customer service to get their account turned on). We currently have something similar in place but the threshold could be set to be very aggressive. We will probably allow contact information to be exchanged only between two paying members. We might also be able to allow contact information to be exchanged after, say, 3 emails have already be exchanged. I am confident that blocking contact information exhanges will destroy the economic incentive of frauders to abuse the openness of this site - and therefore kick them out. I want to get your feedback on this as setting up the "standard member contact exchange ban" is a the top of my development list. I think that the hardest part of it is educating our members why it's needed now and that doing it will make the site a better community. |
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5/29/2006 1:52 pm |
The three email rule sounds like a good one. If someone is legitimately using the site the way it's intended, to meet adult friends for sex and swinging, it's likely that there would be three emails traded before going off-site. And, it doesn't seem smart not to allow communication at all through normal email since many people can't check TSmeet while at work. I'll send you info soon on my book about "Confessions of a 40-Year-Old Teenager: The Year I Spent on TSmeet."
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hey I am a standard member!! Don't block all of us bc of the fakers!! I agree that it is a problem and know that many have blocked us standard members, yet still there are some gld members with scamming profiles so watch that too!! Lady
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I've seen several people complain about the 3-digit anti-spam number but I understand why it's needed. I've talked to several different people here that have been contacted by "pros" in email and in the chat rooms. One thing I have noticed in the blogs and on some profiles is that some people blatantly publish their phone number asa their blog titlw or in their post. There is no attempt made to hide these numbers yet they make it past your review staff. When I see them I hit request review in the hope that they will be caught the second time around. Even wsith all the latest antispam programs in place your staff still needs to be a bit more careful on what goes through.  Have tongue, will use it. Repeatedly.
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Are those so called cloned "information" blogs a part of it??? They have concerned me who is behind it ... I posted in an older post on my blog [post 136683] about this and asking what it is all about. Obviously they are phony and "cloned" ... but what is the motive???? I list the ones im suspicious of on that post (or, post is on page 2 if you enter main blog itself) I would appreciate knowing what this is about, and you are the one to know. Thanks ..Lil♥Jessica♥SQuirt
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5/29/2006 2:20 pm |
I think the idea for a small one time fee might make a bit of a dent in the number of offenders. How about a standard membership for "bloggers only" with maybe a monthly blog post minimum to remain "active." GossipJunkie "Dance like nobody's watching"
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I am one that supports the Confirm ID and believe that this should also be considered to being used for the combating of fraudulent profilers; in addition, it helps in preventing minors from accessing the site too. Maybe using the Confirm ID as an alternative free option with the $1.00 charge idea. Anyone can send a dollar using any name by postal if you accept it that way. One thing to take in consideration, the main concept and purpose of the fraudulent profilers is to make money. Consequently that $1 charge would only be seen as an investment to some of them. Confirmation of ID is something they do not wish to give. Also remember, there are many members not comfortable using Credit Cards over the net. I did the confirm ID through the mail when it first began here, and had no bad experience from it.
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5/29/2006 2:35 pm |
i am a standerd member and i am not a fake i dont think it is fair to the rest of that becouse some are fakes that we get punished. not fair at all and i have meet many people on this site that we just IM back and forth meet some great friends that way why would you want to take that away from people who are real ~sexy~
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5/29/2006 3:15 pm |
I am a standard member, and as it stands my ability to communicate with other members directly through the site varies between nil and very limited. The email within site is so limited as to be of little practical value, and the same goes for access to profiles and issuing network invitations other than in chats. If I understand the economics of it correctly, you will need to achieve a sufficient conversion ratio from standard to premium members on an ongoing basis to ensure the financial viability of the operation. what I don't understand is how you hope to maintain, never mind improve, your conversion ratios if you reduce the level of service and benefits to standard members. And please don't fall into the trap of thinking we're getting it free, so anything goes. Standard members are your recruiting ground for premium members, and the standard membership is also the primary "hunting ground" for premium members. Strip out the standard members and you would remove the majority of members, leaving you with a lot of premium members wondering what they paid their money for. Now I have no problem or issue with protecting against abuse, whether it is from identity fraud, spamming, or scamming, or whatever. But I suggest you need to rethink your strategy on this one. Working on blocking automatic scripts is laudable, and I know you've got to run at 90mph just to keep up. And I don't believe people will object or find it too bothersome. Likewise, improving detection of fraudsters is very worthwhile, and I believe you would find improved response rates to a "reward" system would result in significantly higher levels of detection and onward prevention than can currently be achieved in a "sanction" based effort. But I suggest you need to rethink your strategy on the $1 fee and on restricting the passing of information between individuals Blocking manual fraud by introducing a $1 fee - Bear in mind that this will have to be paid by credit card, and will therefore leave an indelible trail connecting each joining member to your site. Considering people's general reluctance to impart personal information in circumstances such as these and their very strong desire to protect and retain their right to anonymity, it is reasonable to expect that such a measure could have a negative effect on the retention of current standard members and the recruitment of new members. Have you calculated estimates of the fall-off rate in new recruits if such a measure is introduced, and how robust are these estimates. What knock on effect will they have on the recruitment and retention of premium members? What effect will it have on member turnover ratios and intervals across the various levels of member? Blocking information flow between members - I strongly disagree with you. Introducing such restrictions might well remove the economic incentive for the scammers and fraudsters, but are you not in danger of killing off the patient? It won't just make it harder for the fraudsters, it will make it next to impossible for standard members to initiate or sustain any useful level of communication one a 1 to 1 basis with other members. And in those circumstances, what do you think they will do? Fork out for a premium membership? You don't honestly believe that now, do you? I mean it sounds great in theory - it's far cheaper, easier and lazier to widen the service gap between standard and premium membership by reducing the benefits of standard membership than by maintaining and improving the levels of service to both groups of customers. Maybe you might take a look at McDonald's....their retention rate of childhood customers into adult life is over 25% globally, and kids meals etc. are the lowest margin area of the business, and on a per incident basis McDonald's make a net loss on the majority of children's parties. But does that mean they get poor service and attention? No way! Mc D's know which side their bread is buttered on -and you're not much different. Maybe you're just not asking the right questions? Maybe your team are too focused on the problem and not fully cognizant of the environment or theater in which you are, or ought to be acting? I don't know the answers to those questions. But I think you'd achieve a far better result if you started asking yourselves and us, your members, questions like "how can we improve? what can we do better? How can we maintain or improve the benefits of membership without compromising security? How can we achieve realistic and effective security measures while maintaining and improving the quality of our members' experience?" Anyway, i've ranted on long enough, so let's finish up with something positive. I joined less than 2 weeks ago, and am thoroughly enjoying it. It's not perfect, but then, who is? Take care,
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5/29/2006 3:16 pm |
Under 'block automated scripts' you said: "One drawback is that blind members may be limited (we have audio versions but those are also able to be automated)." I would think blind members wouldnt be able to do much on this site because they cant read the wording anyway? or is there special equipment that they have? the 3 emails rule sounds like a good one, cause if you block it totally then people would never really be able to hook up and the activity of the site would go down and people wouldnt buy premium memberships because of that.
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5/29/2006 3:17 pm |
also, maybe there should be an article link on the home page about how to recognize false profiles before you contact them.
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i've never had spam mail ever,not even the i've lost my dad and have 20 kids to feed type thing,also on blogs nothing on my own. what i do see daily in networks is a lot of pics with messinger names written in them plus on into on the profile title user names. i would be happy to confirm who i am by post or fax,but i couldn't pay by credit as i'm one of the rare breed who only work in cash  Another major problem is not just spammers ita multply profiles,women as men and men as women causing trouble in chat and mails.as you know i have two profiles as i've been deleted 6 times for what ever reasons and use the second them ,but too many are using multiply profiles for trouble,so again the confirm ID is a good one to use. thanks from a lowly standard member I'm a   and i'm here to stay
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I was a gold member for a while and let it lapse into standard because of the lack of responses I got when I had to email questions in. I am an active blogger, and active group member of Tampa Area Sex Assoc that is primarly the reason I have kept my profile. If it comes to an issue either monatary, ID confirmation what ever it takes within reason I agree if it helps the issue of fraud and spam. If you want to find some of the pro's and fakes check out Tone_33756 he tries to add one profile to his blog postings. I do appreciate the efferts made in the past few months to make this site better, I will upgrade again soon to see if I have better luck from the staff. Hugz  n Smiles  ~Sim~ 
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5/29/2006 3:45 pm |
In the idea of the $1 fee, if did decide to do that...would it be possible to pay by mail or phone? either way, I think alot of the frauders would be twarted by the new graphic anti-spam number/letter combo that you were talking about and blocking automated scripts. or at least put it to a minimum where legitimate members wouldnt be complaining that they get this all the time.
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5/29/2006 4:05 pm |
Perhaps the answer lies in the levels of members. Instead of placing restrictions on standard members and leaving them few options, perhaps there needs to be a minimal fee 'bronze' membership. Use this to give members slightly more than current standard members, perhaps a limited number of views and/or initial emails each month/period. Perhaps a charge of $15 to $18 a year for this level. It would allow those who select this level to get a little bit more than standard members w/o having to 'break the bank' so to speak. Those who do not opt for this, would retain the standard membership with much stricter limitations on contact. By doing this you would not only provide an additional income stream, but prevent those 'standard' frauders from being able to contact other members. Perhaps you can also add a 'review' link on all emails so it will be easier to report those looking for personal information or other violations.
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thank you for your reply may i suggest - that paying by the only logical way, credit card on internet, is feared as vulnerable by many of us .....thus, not easy to get the 1$ to you. When we do pay for site, we do it by phone ..... and that's not really feasible i think for the 1$ charge?? - I take it that you actually saw the list of suspect profiles on that post i mentioned above?? ... i listed them in the post. They have been very active in last cpl of days. Maybe others here are aware of more of these obvious fakes which are there for "some" purpose, and not likely a "good" purpose. - that many do put phone / email address in pics .... these can pass most software i think ... similar concept to the graphical numeric you use for comments.
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5/29/2006 4:30 pm |
We're sick of reading fake blogs. At least a dozen that we have checked out have only consisted of cut-and-paste entries from a news site. Some of them post frequently and if are allowed to keep it up they could clog up the blogs for genuine glog posters. How can we get that sort of blog removed?
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5/29/2006 5:07 pm |
what about some sort of paypal setup? i'd rather use that than a credit card, even for membership.
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5/29/2006 5:27 pm |
First, I have noticed recently that there seem to be fewer profiles being posted that scream of being fake. So "Kudos" for that. I like the idea of blog vigilantes. I think you'll get more than a few volunteers, but I would suggest people that have a track record of being a member (if not a premium member) for at least 6 months.
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5/29/2006 5:28 pm |
LilSquirt_4mfm, notice the one girl 'north2thefuture', in her profile paragraph she says she is from russia, but below in the statistics section she says she is from west palm beach, florida. and the one called 'legztightlyshut' doesnt have the state listed on her profile. The one called '2soulsmeetas1' her profile doesnt have a gender or a sexual orientation, it only says 'prefer not to say' which is something that is required for you to fill out, I think. They are all very tall too...and 'near' the same age. I have a funny feeling that they are all the same person.
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5/29/2006 5:39 pm |
If you can do the $1 thing for standard contacts, that would be great. Also, another thing I was thinking. Why don't you do a screening test prior before they pay with CC. Ask some simple question or something. Not sure what the questions could be, but none the less a screening process. Carpe Diem
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5/29/2006 6:00 pm |
I like the confirm ID method. I did it with no hassle at all, it will also limit contact with a minor. I don't mind paying a little to use the site but there are people who will not pay by credit card on-line. So you may lose customers that way. Another point to this is some people are using this site discretely and having this on a credit card statement might just raise some questions with a significant other. The choice is yours on how you deal with spammers. I'm fine with anything that needs to be done. I have to admit I have yet to be spammed by anyone. I have a fairly good setup here, the perks of being an IT professional. 
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5/29/2006 6:13 pm |
I personally think the three email rule is a good one. Also I like the idea of beefing up the ways in which members can contact TSmeet when they suspect fraudelent profiles. However, as a technical support professional for a large ISP, I can tell you that I believe your biggest fraudelent activites occur in chatrooms and have you yourself been in a TSmeet chatroom and tried to report someone for a TOS, it is cumbersome to do. I can explain what I am talking about in an email if you would like and then you can check it out for yourself and see how it works on my ISP and see if you can implement the same set up on TSmeet. It might be worth the effort since many people complain about the bots in the chatrooms. Which could become extremely popular if you take away the opportunity to exchange personal email addresses between standard members etc. Juicy 
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5/29/2006 6:28 pm |
Well, I'd be willing to do what I needed to do to confirm who I am.. OTHER than give any financial information. The ONLY reason I'm not a paying member is because I am SO scared to give out any information over the Internet (I don't pay bills online, I don't online bank, I don't shop E-Bay or anything online, etc.). LOL.. I guess I'm just a paranoid old-fashioned kinda girl.  Soo.. I wouldn't be comfortable with the $1 thing. It's not the $1 that concerns me, it's the sharing of my credit card info over the computer. If in the wrong hands, that $1 could turn into $1,000!Aside from that, I knew there were fakes on here, but I didn't realize it was SUCH a problem. That sucks. I really hope it gets worked out.. and bein' selfish, I hope that it works out in a way that doesn't affect me.
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5/29/2006 6:36 pm |
Would everyone who has not done confirm ID get to do the "mini" confirm ID by an 800 number? That would make life on here a lot easier for me...I procrastinate on a lot of things and thats why I have yet to do it...but if I could phone it in I would have no problem. I like what WowieZowie1 said too...make a bronze member level for a minimum amount of cash...I am on a very limited budget but I could afford 10-20 dollars for a year subscription on here. gypsy
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I am one that supports the Confirm ID and believe that this should also be considered to being used for the combating of fraudulent profilers; in addition, it helps in preventing minors from accessing the site too. Maybe using the Confirm ID as an alternative free option with the $1.00 charge idea. Anyone can send a dollar using any name by postal if you accept it that way. One thing to take in consideration, the main concept and purpose of the fraudulent profilers is to make money. Consequently that $1 charge would only be seen as an investment to some of them. Confirmation of ID is something they do not wish to give. Also remember, there are many members not comfortable using Credit Cards over the net. I did the confirm ID through the mail when it first began here, and had no bad experience from it. nor will i send information of such a nature to anyone. i support multi contacts before email info can be exchanged... some men may not like it and leave, but better odds for the rest! the whiners are probably just as guilty as anyone for sending contact info to everyone! Virtue Alone Ennobles
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